Used Car Warranties

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 - What are the Customers' Legal Rights when Buying a Used Car?



From 1 October 2015, all used car sales from motor dealer to consumer will be covered by the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The new Act replaces the trader to consumer parts of all the following: Sale of Goods Act 1979, Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973, Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994, Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

So, as you can see it’s a major new piece of legislation which aims to consolidate various pieces of consumer law from the last 40 years but, what does it mean for you as a car dealer?

Well it hasn’t changed consumer law completely but it has introduced some new concepts such as the ‘Short Term Right to Reject’ and it has attempted to clarify issues over repairs. The headlines do not necessarily make good reading for the UK retail motor industry, but it’s not all gloom and doom and the next few sections will take you through the basics of the Act to enable you to get a good understanding of what it means for second hand car dealers.

Who is a consumer?

Who is a consumer?

According to the Act, a consumer is “someone acting for purposes which are wholly or mainly outside that individuals trade, business or profession”.

So, for example, a plumber who buys a van for his tools but who drives the kids around at the weekend in the van is unlikely to be a consumer and neither is a driving instructor who mainly uses the vehicle to teach learner drivers. The plumber and the driving instructor will not be entitled to the remedies in this Act. Their rights as a business buyer are covered in the remaining parts of the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

What is a fault?

What is a fault?

For the purposes of the Act, a fault is something which renders the vehicle:

•    Not of satisfactory quality

•    Not fit for particular purpose or
 
•    Not as described


We have already seen consumer organisations advise customers that they can return an item for any fault. This is not correct.

A wear and tear item or a minor fault such as a spark plug failure will not give the customer the Rights as set out in the Act. Your first consideration when a customer comes back to you asking for a repair or a refund under the Act should be ‘is this a fault which means the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality, not fit for purpose or not as described?’. Of course, your customer may have a different opinion to you but ultimately the law considers what a reasonable person would think about the fault considering factors such as the age, mileage and price paid for vehicle.


Short Term Right to Reject

Short Term Right to Reject

This is new and is designed to allow consumers to return goods for a full refund if a fault appears in the first 30 days of ownership. The customer does not have to give you an opportunity to repair in this first 30 days.

However, if the customer wants to exercise this Right they must:

1.    Prove there is a fault

2.    Prove that the fault was present at the point of sale

If you have undertaken comprehensive pre delivery checks and have kept good records of those checks, you will have made it very difficult for the consumer to prove the fault (hyperlink) was there at the point of sale.

It is obviously up to you how much time you want to put into your pre-delivery procedures but we would recommend you:

•    Put a new MOT on each vehicle you sell

•    Complete a Pre-Delivery Checklist

•    Get the customer to sign to say there were no apparent faults during the test drive

•    Have the vehicle checked and/or serviced by an independent garage

•    Take photos or even a video of the vehicle

Right to Repair or Replacement - First Tier remedies

Right to Repair or Replacement – First Tier remedies

Once the 30 day Short Term Right to Reject period has passed, if the customer comes back to you with a fault, they must give you an opportunity to repair or replace the goods before they can seek to reject the vehicle for a refund.

Previously, under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, dealers could undertake several repairs before agreeing to a refund. However, this new Act now only gives you one chance to repair.

To us, this makes the Act not fit for purpose as we all know that modern vehicles can be quite complex and so it is not always possible to correctly diagnose a fault at the first attempt, especially with intermittent faults. This then appears to put dealers at a disadvantage but there is nothing in the Act to prevent you from releasing a vehicle, as long as it is safe to do so, back to a customer and advising them that the repair job card remains open should they experience further problems.

It is also possible to agree with a customer to undertake a repair under any warranty you may have sold with the car as that will constitute a contractual repair and so will not count as a statutory repair under the Act. In this instance, you will need to ensure you have the customer’s agreement to conduct any repairs under warranty (preferably in writing) so it is clear it is a contractual warranty repair and not a statutory repair – the difference being only a statutory repair will give rise to the Final Right to Reject.

Whilst any warranty can be used, if you provide your own warranty you will have more flexibility to authorise repairs and make goodwill gestures.

Read more about how to run your own in-house warranty scheme

Final Right to Reject or Price Reduction - Second Tier remedies

Final Right to Reject or Price Reduction – Second Tier remedies

From day 31 i.e. on expiry of the Short Term Right to Reject period, the customer no longer has the right to reject the vehicle without giving you an opportunity to make a repair or provide a replacement.

However, if you have already made a statutory repair (as opposed to a contractual repair) then the customer does have the choice of rejecting the vehicle for a refund under the Final Right to Reject. In this instance, you can reduce the amount of the refund to take account of the use the consumer has had of the vehicle. There is no set formula for this deduction and so the figure will need to be calculated depending on many factors such as time of ownership, mileage covered, condition of the vehicle on return etc.

Ultimately if there is a disagreement between you and the consumer as to the amount of the deduction, it will up to the courts to decide. 


Author: Nona Bowkis

Published: 28 Mar 2011

Edited: 26 May 2016

Comments

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Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (13/12/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
James Bridle (13/12/2016)
I recently bought a car, and within the first 30 days realised there was a slow release puncture. I took it to the garage to have it looked at but the Locking wheel nut key pins are broken. We have a Customer Protect warranty with the car but is the onus on me or the trade garage I purchased the car from to resolve the issue?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (17/10/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Kim McAllister- Blackpool (17/10/2016)
My partner bought a used Seat Alhambra from a dealership in Blackburn. We have had it one month and they (personally) took it through it's MOT before handing it over. It has a shiny MOT with zero problems and no advisories. Instantly the front screen wipers needed replacing as they had split. Then there was a problem with the gear box clunking. This clunk went on to be the drive shaft snapping. The dealership have it under a warranty and are saying the drive shaft isn't covered as it's wear and tear! Surely this should be covered legally?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (05/09/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Jemma (05/09/2016)
Hey I've recently bought a 2010 Astra just over a month ago. I have just started to realise the clutch pedal is moving from side to side. After doing a bit of research this is a common fault with the car and is the clutch bush wearing. Is this covered under a warranty or am I to pay to have this fixed? Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (24/08/2016)
Hi Dale, as an oil leak could be something as simple as a loose seal, there may be no obligation to repair in any case as it does not necessarily make the vehicle not of satisfactory quality. Regardless, you are right in that the issue needs to be present at the point of sale and so as this doesn’t appear to have been present, strictly speaking you may not have any liability. The MOT can only help your case as will any documented pre delivery inspection.
Dale (24/08/2016)
Hi we recently sold a 2009 Mazda with 64,000 miles on it the customer part exchanged a vehicle of higher value therefore recived money there way after 15 days of owning the Mazda they have noticed that there is an oil leak on the car and has asked for it to be repaired we are aware of the new legislation but are also aware we are only under obligation to repair faults that were present at the point of sale and we had a mot done on the Mazda which passed with no advisorys is that sufficient evidence that the fault wasn't there at the time of sale any help would be much appreciated
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (22/08/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
joes (22/08/2016)
Hi please could you give me some advice ive just swapped my car in a dealers but as was driving it home the engine is knocking ive been told the engine if had it ive got 1 month warrenty on the car please tell me were i stand thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (22/08/2016)
Hi Westie, much will depend on how long ago they bought the car, how much they paid for it, mileage, age etc and how soon after they had the ‘slight issue’ but it could well be that their local garage misdiagnosed something or caused damaged or even that the customer caused damage by continuing to drive the vehicle. You need really to get the car and have a look yourselves or at least get the customer to provide a report from the garage.
Westy (22/08/2016)
Hello, we sold a vehicle to a customer with a 3 month warranty. They had a slight issue and took it to their local garage who replace a bracket to the gearbox without contacting us. It then started to make a noise from the gearbox only when warm and the garage they took it to couldn't look at it for 2 weeks so they continued to use it. It's now been diagnosed with a gearbox fault that needs replacing. We weren't told about any of this until afterwards and now they want us to pay towards the repairs. We don't know if there was anything really wrong and if their garage have just made it up? Can you advise. Thank you.
Westy (22/08/2016)
Hello we are a garage sold a car and the buyer had gearbox trouble so they took it to a local garage who did a repair. It then developed another gearbox fault and the same garage said they couldn't look at it for 2 weeks. The buyer continued to use the car and didn't inform us. It then developed into a serious problem that needed the gearbox repairing.Now they want us to pay towards the repair . Should they of informed us as soon as they had a problem and give us a chance to rectify it. One of my staff who answered phone to them also had some insults slung at him by this customer. Thanks for any advise in advance.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (19/08/2016)
Hi Steve, if the vehicle came with a recent MOT (how recent?) with no advisories then you have some evidence that the vehicle was fine at the point of sale in respect of the issues. If you also have evidence that their previous car was used in wet and muddy/clay like conditions then this could help as it may point to a usage pattern that would mean all their cars are at increased risk of such deterioration. Of course, their garage may be exaggerating the issue for commercial gain and so this is likely to be a case whereby an independent report by a company such as Automotive Consulting Engineers Ltd (ACE) may be useful to determine if there really was an issue at the point of sale.
Steve (19/08/2016)
Hi. I sold a land rover discovery td5 to someone over 3 months ago. The discovery is 16 years old with over 125k on it. It came to me with a recent MOT with no advisories, an excellent service record and everything working as it should and drove well. Prior to sale I had my family in it on several journeys and even my garage road tested it after fixing a minor throttle fault. The customer who bought it from me contacted me 3 and a half months later to say that after driving back from a trip away it it made a knocking noise so they took it to a garage who said the rear chassis is rotten and there are faults with brakes and steering colum. Where does this leave me? They could have used the land rover for anything. It was sold in good faith, fit for purpose at point of sale, in lovely condition bodywork, interior and engine wise but at the end of the day it is 16 years old and higher mileage. The part ex I took in from them had what I can only describe as mud bricks on the axles from driving it on a farm, which I had never seen before and had to be removed and cleaned out, replacement exhaust fitted amongst other things. Thanks. Steve.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (15/08/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
At my wits end! (15/08/2016)
Hi, I bought a 10 year old Landrover Discovery 3, 5 months ago and it has been in and out of the garage 6 times during that time with the same problem. ....going into "limp mode" while on the motorway, or even on general driving. Various parts have been replaced and paid for by the warranty. However, the garage (as recommended by the showroom) then decided to replace a high pressure fuel pump, but this did not work and now a low pressure pump has been fitted and the warranty company will not pay for it because they do not think that both pump would fail at the same time. I have been back in touch with the showroom and have asked them to take the car back as it is not fit for purpose. They are adammant that I cannot return it and get a refund. Is this true? What would you advise....I'm at my wits end!!!
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (10/08/2016)
There are lots of issues here before we even get to the issue of not as described or not of satisfactory quality. If you were an agent then did you make that clear and have the actual seller’s details on the invoice? Did the customer think they were buying from you as a trader? Did you use your own business invoice? Depending on the answers to those, if the customer had good reason to believe that they were buying from a trader then the ‘sold as seen’ words are likely to mean very little as traders cant avoid the CRA and using the ‘sold as seen’ term, especially if a regular practice, is likely to attract the attention of Trading Standards.
Jezza (10/08/2016)
Customer bought a 115k miles 2004 car off me. Customer asked me if car overheated and I responded by saying I had test driven a couple of times and car did not overheat. I also explained to customer I was selling car on behalf of a customer who happens to be a business partner. Vehicle was sold as seen as advised boldly on receipt. Customer calls after driving 25 miles to complain of overheating problems. Am I liable for "not as described" especially this not being my trade purchased car but only served as an agent even though customer paid me some commission?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (10/08/2016)
Your obligation under the CRA, assuming the fault to be one which you have liability, is to make the repair within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer, and bear any necessary costs incurred. So, will your customer be significantly inconvenienced if you don’t pay to transport it back and/or is that transportation cost a necessary cost? Arguably yes on both counts but open to interpretation if you really want to argue the point. For future issues, you could add a term to your sales contracts to say you will only cover transportation costs within a 25 mile radius. If you do and then rely on that clause, it will be up to a court to decide if that is a fair term.
cNl (10/08/2016)
Hi, I am a dealer and want to know if I am responsible for costs to transport car which has developed a fault shortly after I sold it? If so, what if the customer travels 200miles away or even takes the car to France and it breaks down? Thank you
cnlee (10/08/2016)
Hi - I am a dealer and recently sold a vehicle which is not starting. Am I responsible for costs transporting the vehicle back to me or a garage of my choice? If so, would this still be the case if the customer took the car miles away and it broke down or even to France? Thank you
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (10/08/2016)
We would really need to know more about the car eg. cost, mileage at point of sale, mileage since sale etc but generally, if the customer wants you to repair the car they should have brought it back to you in the first place. Who is to say what the inspecting garage may have damaged when dismantling the vehicle or if they upsold any fault/repair. Its not straightforward but I wouldn’t take over someone else work. It may be worth you talking directly to the garage to suss them out and see if together you can all reach a conclusion.
SCC (10/08/2016)
HI, sold a car 6 weeks ago,new service/mot, and told them any problems please bring it back and we wil fix it. Called us yesterday saying the car had lost power so they took it to their usual garage they use,who stripped the engine and said it needed a new oil pump,quoting them £2500. Now they have called us claiming they will get the garage to return it to us stripped down in bits and we are to fix it. Where to we stand.. Any advise welcome
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (10/08/2016)
Hi and yes it does sounds like you have done everything right. If the fault wont replicate then there is no need to make a repair, especially when he has had the vehicle for around 5 months and it had over 77k miles at the point of sale. The clutch is generally a wear and tear item anyway and so liability would normally fall to the owner and not the seller.
Alex thomas (10/08/2016)
Hope you can help..I sold a 2007 Audi TT to a customer in February 2016 on finance with 77100 miles.He has recently contacted me saying the clutch is slipping and obviously he is not happy. Upon handover on the collection day I had put a 6 mth insurance back outside warranty on the vehicle and had the customer sign a pdi/ inspection form stating he was happy with the vehicle.I have asked the customer to bring the vehicle back(July 25th) and upon driving and inspecting the vehicle could find no fault. The following day I h ave had a independent garage check and drive the vehicle and again could find no fault.customer returns following day and still believes there is a fault. I ask him to drive it with the independent mechanic to see if this fault can be found,again mechanic can't find fault with the clutch..customer goes away with tail between leg..next day contacts me saying he is not happy and want me to fit a new clutch or else he will return the car to the finance company ..where do I stand on this matter..I think I'm doing everything right,I have even offered to have a 2 nd inspection from another garage if need be..can you help.thks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (25/07/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Terry King (25/07/2016)
I bought a car at a dealership and he sold me a 6 months auto protect warranty. Less than 3 months later the engine started to be faulty and i called the insurance to exercise the warranty only to find out that my policy didn't exist. The dealer claims he changed insurance within the past few months, and that my policy is now void. How can i make a claim against him or what are my options to get a full refund ? Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (22/07/2016)
Hi CCB, that is pretty random but as someone or something has damaged the petrol tank after the sale, then you cant really be held liable. For a refund the customer will need to prove the ‘fault’ was there at the point of sale and that will be difficult given your findings (keep photos) and the fact that petrol only spilled out a week later.
CCB (22/07/2016)
I sold a car with a years MOT for £550 (haggled down from £600). We spent a lot of money on new brakes front & back & calipers for the MOT. The customer bought the car on the Tuesday & the following Monday called to say the car wouldn't start & it appeared the petrol tank had burst as petrol was all over the road where the car was parked. We took the car back for repairs and found the tank had been drilled. This was obviously done after the sale at the customers address as there was no damage to the tank for its MOT & the customer had used the car for several days after the sale. We tried to repair the tank but the customer has called again a week later saying it is still leaking & she now wants to return the car for a full refund. Where do I stand to damage caused after the sale? Thank you
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (22/07/2016)
Hi John and ouch. If you have advertised that it has a LR warranty and it doesn’t have one, or at least not a valid one, then that leaves the customer open to claim the vehicle was not as described which is not good news for you. Would the customer accept a price reduction in lieu of the warranty or maybe you can chat up LR who, as a premium brand, may like to work with you to keep a customer of their brand happy.
John the MotorMan (22/07/2016)
Hi, I sold a 5 year old Range Rover Sport to a customer and advertised it had a LR warranty until October 2017. Now LR have cancelled the warranty policy as it is against their terms and conditions to sell a car through the trade. They can only transfer the policy if it is a private transaction. As it is not my fault the warranty was not honoured, am I liable? The customer is asking for ether a 2 year LR warranty or a full refund. Both would be very expensive options for me. Thanks John
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (22/07/2016)
Hi Andrew, my instinct is that a court, despite the high mileage, will say the combination of 10 issues reported in 48 hours followed by 2 breakdowns in quick succession resulting in a new starter motor being required is probably grounds to reject I am afraid.
Andrew Hay (22/07/2016)
Hello. I'm a longstanding dealer of 30 yrs. We sold a £7k / 118k mile car in mid June to a customer who returned it within 48 hours with a list of 10 issues which we agreed to resolve. Most were quite minor and due to an over-sight we hadn't given him a copy of the PDI at purchase. (Stupid I know). We returned the car after 7 days but 48 hrs later it broke down (non starting) and was towed back to us by the AA. We couldn't a fault on the diagnostics and the car started and ran fine. The customer asked for a refund which we rejected. The customer collected the car a few days later but within 36 hours it broke down again with the AA in attendance. This time it was clear the starter motor had broken. He still wants a refund. Do you think this is a fair request or should we resist arguing that it wasn't there at the point of sale? The car hasn't been driven much since he bought it.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (22/07/2016)
Hi R, the new CRA has translated into more customer complaints. However, most come about because of unrealistic expectations as a result of consumers getting advice that is too quick and too dirty - nothing like that here of course! To be fair to the customer, they could well argue that as they were in France, it was possibly reasonable for them to have got it fixed before contacting you. However, it was their choice to take it to France and you shouldn’t be penalised because of that fact. If the injector was not faulty at the point of sale, and the likely mileage covered probably suggests not, they may not have any legal right to any money and so your offer to refund the amount it would have cost you is more than reasonable in my opinion.
RBatchelor (22/07/2016)
Dear Nona, my dealership has 30 years experience but since the new legislation last year a few things are unclear. A customer has taken a vehicle over to France on holiday and an injector has failed. The vehicle showed no signs of any faults previously until a sudden failure. They have taken to a Citroen dealer there without contacting us first and had the work done at a cost of £500. They now expect us to pay. They have had the car over 2 months when failure occurred. We would normally offer the customer the cost of what it would have cost us to repair as a good will gesture without us being given the opportunity to inspect the car. Is this still reasonable to do so are or we obliged to pay the full amount now? Many thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (21/07/2016)
Hi Nick, if the buyer was aware the seller was a private individual and sales documentation backs that up, then they shouldn’t have any case against you and they will only have the usual rights against the seller which are broadly its sold as seen (as long as it meets its description). If the new owner booked and paid for an independent inspection, they knew exactly what they were getting and if that report didn’t throw up any of the issues recently highlighted, then in any case, that is good evidence those issues were not present at the point of sale. If the buyer wants a beautifully fully restored Stag, then he should have either bought one or pay for the work himself.
Nick (21/07/2016)
Hi, I own a garage where we carry out bodywork and mechanical repairs. I also sell the odd used car as a trade seller. Recently I was asked to sell a customer's 1977 Triumph Stag with a recorded mileage of 72,800 miles. This was in April 2016. I received a letter today claiming the car had failed an MOT with a list of defects, most minor, but including excessive corrosion which I dispute. The buyer also claims there is a water leak from one cylinder head. The car had been taken to a Triumph Stag restorer and they have presented estimates totalling nearly £4,000 for rectification work. The customer claims the car is unroadworthy and it is inappropriate to move it and is going to authorise repairs and wants me to pay! Prior to purchase the new owner booked and paid for an independent engineer's report. Some work was required which the then owner authorised. The new owner was fully aware of my role as agent. Two questions. Firstly, as the car was sold on behalf of the owner (my customer) and I took a small commission does the Consumer Rights Act apply? If so how much of the alleged rectification work am I liable for? Looking at the estimates and the photographs supplied it is my view the seriousness and cost of the work has been inflated by a company drumming up business and wanting to do a first class restoration on what is an old car in good but not outstanding condition. Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (21/07/2016)
Hi Alex, unless the car was either very new or very expensive, I doubt if he has any claim against you. Carbon deposits are most likely to be seen as wear (especially after 3 months and 3000 miles) and so not your liability and in any case, if he wanted you to put your hand in your pocket, he should have given you the opportunity to inspect the issue before effectively trying to spend your money.
Alex (21/07/2016)
Hi there, I have a buyer threatening legal action and quoting the consumer rights act 2015. After 3 months and 3000 miles the oil pressure light came on as he was driving. Without my knowledge he had the car checked at an independent garage. They told him that the car had low oil pressure. They then attempted an engine flush and told him the car had excessive carbon deposits which had caused the "fault". I'm not happy about this as I gave no authority for anyone to tamper with the car. I'm also concerned that his garage may have caused consequential damage by attempting flushing when a mechanical strip down investigation would be the correct procedure. Also, I don't believe that carbon deposits in a common rail turbo diesel engine could be called a fault, and could be seen as an unfortunate but common wear and tear situation? He's basically saying this "fault" must have been there when he bought the car. Comments would be welcomed. Thanks Alex
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (21/07/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Robchappy (21/07/2016)
I bought a x reg 3 series bmw over a month ago and the handbreak assembly has collapsed, (the guard behind it was rotten and pads fell apart) so i am now forking out to repair it as the warranty company that the garage gave me a 3 month warranty with won't pay as its "wear and tear" as the garage did its own MOT and apparently the corrosion on the other side is clearly visable where do i stand? Can i contact the dvsa and rwport them so i can gety money back as its going to cost 3/4 of the value of the car to repair.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (11/07/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Christine (11/07/2016)
Hello, my son bought a Saab 93. It was purchesd on 15.6.16. We took it back to the dealer as ineeded oil alot. The dealer has put in a new second hand engine. The 30 days are running out shortly and my question is, does the dealer need to give another warranty for the "new" engine? The dealer says no. The car has been with the dealer since ladt Tuesday, wich has shortened the 30 days as well. I would be grateful for some advise about the warranty. Thank you very much.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (11/07/2016)
Hi LSC, If your customer is not a consumer, by virtue of the fact he is using the car as a taxi, then he will only have rights under the Sale Of Goods Act 1979 and not all the new rights which came in under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 last October. Minor faults are unlikely to give rise to any remedy but that will depend on the terms on your invoice.
LSC (11/07/2016)
If a vehicle is sold from trade to trade, where do we stand... if vehicle was proven to be faultless prior to and upon sale and test drive and subsequently 700 miles later...if this vehicle develops any faults who is liable?
LSC (11/07/2016)
Hi We trade from home, sold a car to a taxi driver , been told its a trade to trade sale..... after 3 weeks and 600+ miles he has some minor issues...where do we stand..thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (08/07/2016)
Hi Nic, firstly if your customer bought the transit for business purposes then he is not a consumer as far as the Consumer Rights Act is concerned. If it didn’t have an MOT then he should not have driven it away unless he was on route to a MOT centre. No MOT suggests an unroadworthy vehicle and so for future reference, you should use an unroadworthy invoice (we sell them of course). In this matter, we would need to see the paperwork to give a more definitive answer but it sounds to me as if your man got what he paid for and so there is no case.
NIC (08/07/2016)
Hi we are traders and sold a 2005 transit cherrie picker that was in full working order but had no MOT,and had done over 140000k. It was sold at a discount price as customer new it had no MOT and brought it trade price. We stated (trade sale knocked down price) on his invoice which he signed. As he drove off in the van and did not get it recovered we added spears and repairs to the invoice because it was not road legal it did not have MOT. A few days later he rang to say the cherrie picker was brocken, but it worked when it left the yard as he tride it. and he wants to know why we added spears and repairs to the invoice, as it was an old high milage vehicle he was told that we would not refund him as it was a unfoeseeable problem that neither of us could of new about. I recently receved a letter from him saying he has the right to a refund as a engineer has told him the problem was already there. As he paid a dicount price and purchased as trade and taking into acount age and millage do you think he is right? Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (08/07/2016)
Hi James, unfortunately there is no set formula for the reasonable deduction for usage, it really is down to negotiation. £250 per month plus a 0.45 mile charge doesn’t seem totally outrageous and if they have damaged the car then they must expect a further deduction. Things to be considered could include the cost to hire a similar car for their ownership period and accepted excess mileage rates on PCPs which are around 10p per mile. Consumers will generally expect a full refund which is why dealers will get problems but consumers have to be realistic – they cant simply get free use of a car. In respect of proof, when was it first reported? If at least a few weeks after the sale, then unlikely to have been there at POS. What did you PDI show? Was it MOTd at point of sale? Did they sign to say they test drove and all was well? By the way, is it even a fault which renders the vehicle not of satisfactory quality or is it just a niggle?
James (08/07/2016)
A customer bought a 2013 car from us around 4 months ago (paying £8775 if you include the value we quoted for trade in). They brought it in 3 times reporting problems which we were unable to reproduce at the time and our attempted fix did not work. They have sent us videos showing the problem. We asked for another attempt to fix the car, but the customer wants to exerciser their Final Right to Reject as they say it has been far too inconvenient and we've had several attempts. With no formula for what is a 'reasonable reduction' is, we have quoted the customer £250 reduction per month they've had the car and £0.45 per mile driven (to cover depreciation). In addition we have said that the car should be returned 'as sold' and any damage might result in the refund being rejected or further reductions. They aren't happy with that and don't think it seems 'like a reasonable reduction'. Does that seam unreasonable? Any advice for a better way to calculate a refund value that might help us avoid court? One final query. We aren't convinced the problem was there at the time of sale. I understand it is our responsibility to prove that is the case. What could constitute proof in this situation?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (08/07/2016)
Hi Neil the nice dealer. A car of that age and mileage is obviously not going to be perfect and your customer does seem to like finding problems with your cars. On those facts, I’d say he is not entitled to reject and even if you did decide to refund to stop him bouncing back and forth to your forecourt, he would not be entitled to a full one. Time to pull out one of my well worn phrases - remember, no good deed goes unpunished.
Neil the nice dealer (08/07/2016)
Hi there, quick question. I sold car A in Feb to a customer. We had a few problems with it so I swapped it for another car of the same value (Car B) in May. In the mean time, we had car A back on the forecourt all sorted and working. The chap came back in so we could attend to a small job on car B. He spotted car A and wanted it back. We agreed and he drove off in car A (again!). Cut to yesterday when he complained the tracking was a bit out. We had car A tracked but he's not happy with it and says it still pulls left. He's now wanting a full refund for car A which I don't think is reasonable for tracking. It could be tyre wear + camber that causes the car to act as it does. I've suggested to pay for a 4 wheel geometry check to allay his concerns but he's pushing to reject the car. Can he do this? The car is 7 years old with 110k and we're offering a solution for him! Seems a bit much to have to refund for tracking. Do w have a case? Many thanks!!
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (08/07/2016)
Hi Graham Are we sure the customer hasn’t somehow damaged the boot handle himself, its an unusual problem. If he hasn’t damaged it then I would suggest that it is down to good ole wear and tear for which you are unlikely to be liable. Whether you want to make a goodwill contribution to keep him happy is another matter
Graham (08/07/2016)
Hi. I sold a 4 yr old low mileage good condition vehicle to a customer for £12,500. A week later he has sent me a photo of the boot handle, stating it has become detached due to 5 clips snapping which secured it to the boot door. Nissan have costed the repair at £250. I have told him it's a manufacturing fault and his issue, however as the boot cannot be opened he has said its not met the expectations for an 18,000 mileage one owner car. He has glued the door trim/ handle back on but it's just a temporary repair. Also he has complained the lighter doesn't work; I've told him that I can't check everything. Am I liable to pay the £250?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (08/07/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
spirit (08/07/2016)
dealer said a van was ex police and in great condition it had been off road a year needed welding and was in poor condition the mileomiter on all mot coupys over 6 years were all difrent ranging from 141.000 to 20.000 yeh vosa dvla and police all say that is ok we cant get money back garage owner has no vat ither but law says you can not do any thing so how dose the new law help customers and not sellers?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (08/07/2016)
Hi Craig, the customer doesn’t have the right to a full service unless it was advertised as having a full service history or up to date service history. I’m guessing he is the sort of customer who buys a car cheap but doesn’t want a cheap car. Lots of those around and mostl have unrealistic expectations from their purchases. If you’ve been honest in your advertising and the customer got what he paid for, then you shouldn’t have too much of a problem. You have offered a refund, you can do no more.
craig rg (08/07/2016)
hi there we are a small family run business which work on volume we have very little profit in vehicles. we sold a car last week and now the customer is asking for a full service as its not known when last done. also a cambelt kit and a rear wiper arm. I have offered a full refund as I don't want to be dealing with people like this but he has refused but wants the work carrying out and says he will get it done and send me the bill how do I reply to this as I'm not prepared to pay this and he said he will persue in county court.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (08/07/2016)
So we have a 9 year old Merc which has covered over 5000 miles since purchase and the customer is trying to argue it is not of satisfactory quality? I’m not convinced by his case, especially as it appears that his ‘evidence’ is from what sounds like the usual Main Dealer Health Check. Obviously I don’t have all the fact but on what we do have, I’d probably be advising you to tell him to jog on but if you do want to buy the vehicle back, yes most definitely make a deduction for usage.
RM (08/07/2016)
Hi, we are a small family run business selling cars since 1973. I sold a 2007 Mercedes in Feb to a customer who has been trying to part exchange it into me since March because it only has 4 seats. (the car is on Finance) Since then it developed a fault with the shocks and the drivers window mechanism, and the customer tried to reject it via the CRA, outside of the 30 days. I had the car in and replaced the shocks and window mechanism. The customer then took the car car to Mercedes who have said the front suspension arms need replacing and the window is catching the door seal and the car now has a cracked alloy wheel. The car has now covered 5,200 miles since purchased. The customer is now trying to reject the car under the 1 shot at repair rule. Am i right in thinking there should be a usage charge? And would the above defects qualify as not fit for purpose? Many thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (08/07/2016)
Well that is a question with no set answer. The BIS guidance only mentions a reasonable deduction for usage and that it cannot be the trade price. Much will depend on the mileage covered, the length of ownership, how they have treated the vehicle etc etc. You could consider what it would have cost the consumer to hire such a car for that period and then negotiate from there. What is clear, is that the consumer is not entitled to free use of the vehicle.
Fair use deduction (08/07/2016)
If a customer returns a car outside the first 30 days and a repair is not a viable option, how much can be reasonably reduced from the refund amount for fair use?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (08/07/2016)
Hi Karen. This is a tricky one as it is arguably a mixed contact i.e you supplied parts but also provided a service. We would need to know more details but either way, he should have returned to you and so if he has a case, you would probably be only liable for what it would have cost you to replace those parts – which may be nothing if you could have returned them to your supplier, assuming they were genuinely faulty.
Karen (08/07/2016)
We did an engine upgrade for a customer over 3 months ago which involved dismantling and reassembling the engine. Therre was an initial oil leak, and we collected the bike, and effected repairs f.o.c. The customer has contacted us this weekend to advise that he has had replacement cylindrs and pistons fitted at another garage and that the parts fitted by us were faulty. He is demanding a full refund from us, however we have not had any opportunity to effect a repair or even see the alledgedly damaged parts. In fact we were not aware of any problem until this communication from him. Obviously the garage which has undertaken this work is not in a position to give us an independent report as the work has already been done and they have been paid. What can we do about this?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (22/06/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Jonathan (22/06/2016)
Hello I bought a car 3 days ago. The garage said to me that the exhaust have to been clean in driving after 100 - 200 miles. Then the strange noise'like rally car' will disapear. So i did a check and I have to change the catalyst converter pipe and manifld studs in very poor condition. I would like to know if I can cancelled the sales ? Give the car back and Received my money back ? Thanks you
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (13/06/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Dave (13/06/2016)
Hi guys. I bought my car 2 months ago with 1 month warranty from motor trader. During first month I went there with vibrations on motorway while driving over 70mph, I received courtesy car and after 1 day they told me that there is nothing wrong with my car and send me back ( 50 miles distance ) After this visit I spent over 200£ for fixing things that possibly could create this issue. On the end I found that driveshaft needs changing ( another 300£ ) so I contact them again after another month and said that they didn't fix my problem and I know that warranty is over but they didn't diagnosed this properly. They said they have no record of me being there. Finally after argue they took my car, another 2h in a car and 100 miles. They kept car for a week and said they changed it and it's OK now. But its not ! What can I do ? I took finance for this car. Is there any right that could help me get different car or make them get this fixed and get some compensation for all inconveniences ? Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (09/06/2016)
Hi James, did you mark on the invoice that the price was discounted as the customer accepted that there was an issue with the rear light cluster? If so, then it can be argued that the fault was accepted as part of the contract meaning the customer has no comeback. If not, you will find it more tricky to argue. The key should have been taken out if you were not sure if it was for that car as otherwise you have left it open for the customer to claim you gave him 2 keys and one doesn’t work. If in doubt, don’t hand stuff over as they will become part of the sale. Have you seen evidence of what Mercedes allegedly said? If not, ask for it before deciding what to do. You can offer him compensation for his road tax and insurance if you want but how would he have driven the car (which presumably he has) without it? I’d say no but if he insists, you can always make a deduction for his usage to counteract any such claim. That all said, a key and a wiring issue is probably not a sufficient enough level of fault to warrant a refund in any case.
James A (09/06/2016)
Hi we are a small family run garage and have just sold a 2009 Mercedes C class to a customer When the customer test drove the car he stated that the rear indicator was showing as being faulty but then suddenly started working again , He said that the rear light cluster may be at fault and seemed to know what he was talking about , After some negotiation we knocked him £300 from the asking price incase it was a faulty light cluster and so he can get the car serviced as it was nearly due , , There was another Mercedes key in the glove box he was un aware of at the time of purchase but I told him that it was there but it didn't work I told him it possibly needs coding but cant guarantee that 2 days later this customer has emailed saying that he is un happy as the car has a wiring problem to the rear light cluster and that the spare key is not for that car ,and Mercedes want £300 to supply the key and carry out the repair , I have told him I am not willing to pay for a second key , And if he can return the car to us we will happily get the wiring issue resolved I also have said that if he is not happy about the key situation I will gladly refund him his money He has since emailed back that Mercedes have told him that there are a few manufacture safety recalls on the car and we as a dealer should not of sold a car with manufacture safety recalls If we are not willing to supply the key and repair the wiring he said he will return the car and wants compensation for his loss of road tax money and insurance changes How do I stand legally with this situation ??
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (09/06/2016)
If the contract was made in this country then the law of this country will apply. Was this sold on a Trade Sale invoice? Section 2 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 puts the onus on you to prove that your buyer is not a consumer if you do not want him to have the Consumer Rights Act rights. As an example, our Trade Sale invoices have in large bold font – Important – Notice For Trade Sale which underneath says “It is expressly agreed that the purchaser of the vehicle sold on this invoice is a business and is not dealing as a consumer for the purposes of the Consumer Rights Act 2015”. Further down it then states that “Implied terms as to satisfactory quality/fitness for purpose do not apply to this transaction”. And then above the buyer signature it contains the words “I confirm that I have purchased this vehicle as a Trader/Trade business”. If you have this then you should be fine to limit his rights which means no 30 Right To Reject. If he goes to court, he needs to prove his case and so will need the evidence. He can’t expect you to refund on his word alone and he may well not be entitled.
Kris, (09/06/2016)
Hi, I am used van dealer and sold van to customer with pre sale check and full MOT and the vehicle is road worthy and he agree to sign sale contract that he purchase the vehicle sold as seen. Then the customer driven for few weeks and then vehicle been driven to France and been told that the engine has major failure and the van is broken down. All that fact happen in 30 days period and I ask the customer to provide a report from garage in France with the full details of the engine failure but been told that will cost significant amount of money and the customer demand to return the van in UK and to has full refund. My concern is the fact is happen abroad and there is no any reports exactly what happen and could be small accident or something else. Do the law cover vehicle been driven abroad or not please
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (31/05/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Kris (31/05/2016)
Hi, I live in Cork and am thinking about purchasing a car in Dublin from a dealer. The dealer is offering a 90 day warranty on the car. What would happen if the car breaks down while I am in Cork and I am not able to drive it to Dublin to get it fixed. Would I be responsible for the towing charges to get it back to the dealer? Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (25/05/2016)
Hi Mark, that depends. If she viewed the car before agreeing to purchase then she would surely have noticed that the seats were not leather and so is likely to have lost her right to complain about that. Re the remote keys, I assume the car can still be opened and driven and so dependent on the price she paid and age of the car etc, this will not necessarily make the car not of satisfactory quality. If the keys simply need a new battery, then that does not sounds like a substantial enough issue to warrant a rejection and refund in any case.
Mark147 (25/05/2016)
Hi, I have a small used car business from home and sold a car yesterday to a lady. She's just phoned to say the car was not as advertised, full leather seats being advertised and actually has cloth, she's also stated the remote keys don't work. My opinion is that she bought the car as seen, although a mistake was made in the advertisement. Will there be any comebacks with this?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (25/05/2016)
Hi, this is a bit of a mess but as he is a trader, then the Consumer Rights Act does not apply. As a trader, the courts may well conclude that as he inspected and test drove the vehicle then he knew what he was getting and so he has no case. In any case, nothing appears to have failed. Noises can be natural features of used cars. You have already offered a refund and have proof of that so you have been reasonable.
Help needed. (25/05/2016)
I'm a trader who works from home. Customer who is trader purchased a car for £575. I had it advertised for £695 as it was a part ex clearance. The buyer came and haggled me saying the usual trader stuff ie debts etc so we agreed on £575. As he viewed and test drive the car on a Thursday evening he said he will come and collect it Saturday before 12pm and pay. niw he turned up on Saturday at 3pm and I wasn't home. My father answered the door and called me. I advised him to give the buyer the logbook and take money and the buyer will return the trader side of v5 back so we do a trade to trade sale. However the buyer pulled a fast one and kept all the logbook and left us with the normal first page that you sign and return. Because he turned up later then announced he caught away from home and i wasn't able to offer receipt. The buyer told me he was from Leeds (half an hour away from where I trade cars). However I have the need for clarity. This buyer rings me after 24 hours saying the clutch is making a whinding noise/release baring making noise. So I advised him to return the car back to me for full refund as I want to check it out and ensure it is what he says it is. Now this guy says the car is in North Shields ( 2 hours away) and I should collect it myself. I've advised him that as the car runs and drives he should bring it to me and I'll give refund. This guy then reverts to the I'm a trader too and you sold me a faulty car and you're not collecting and I'm going to have you talk. He then cut me off and won't answer my calls. I have text him to advise he returns the car and if what he says is true then I'll offer refund. Also I have asked him to return the logbook as I haven't had chance to post the seller part off. I don't really understand where I stand if I have to collect the car from hundreds of miles away. His logbook address is a Leeds address half an hour away. I believe this trader is trying it on or just messing me about as he knows he pulled a fast one when I wasn't around. Please advise
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (25/05/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
anthonybrown (25/05/2016)
Hi I bought a van from my father who is a trader I did buy the van with what he said was "a faulty injector" and that he will fix it but 5 days of me having the van the turbo blew up, He said it needs a new turbo. He has now said the van needs a new engine but for sum reason it's my fault the engine is not fixable? He has now had the van nearly 4 months after me asking him on so many occasions when will my van be fixed but all I get is "it will be done next week but" he said he would give me the money back but has never made the effort to sort it. This has put strain on our relationship and I don't want want to take him to court but what other option do I have???
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (25/05/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Warren (25/05/2016)
Hi, I purchased a car on the 30/3/2016 and since owning the car it has been going into limp mode and the engine management light has been coming on and off. However the problem has become much worse and after taking it to be seen at a dealership I was told to take it back to the dealer who sold me the car to either get it repaired or my money back (£18,000). The car comes with a warranty that covers up to £2,000 but not everything is covered. What are my options as I am not happy with the vehicle and have been told if could cost the best part of £3000 to investigate and repair the misfiring that the engine is doing? I also have covered 5,000 miles since owning it. Would that be a problem in returning the car and getting a full refund?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (25/05/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Mike H (25/05/2016)
I bought a car 3 months ago. It's just over 4 years old and on 24,000 miles. However since I've owned it I'm noticing more and more problems that has now mounted massively. I seen pictures online and traveled 180 miles to the trader. They proved the vehicle was MOT'd online, however I don't have a hard copy despite the car being described with full service history. Faults on the vehicle include Thermostat housing, Throttle body, badly scored rear brake discs, missing heat shield for the exhaust manifold, snapped exhaust brackets, defective and incorrect battery. There's also a part of my bodywork need replacing due to one missing piece and damage on the underside of the car. Since all this has come to light, the only thing that's repaired at the cost of the trader is the thermostat housing. They are unwilling to repair the car because they don't want to recover the vehicle, although Citizens Advice told me they are to incur the cost of transporting the vehicle to a garage. The Trader is now very difficult to get a hold of, they say they'll call me back and they don't. I'm currently going down the route of a debit payment despite in the form of a partial refund. Is there a better approach I can take?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (19/05/2016)
Hi Powercar, there is a potential legal argument that an ebay auction (but NOT buy it now or classifieds) is on a par with a standard live auction at which ‘sold as seen’ can legitimately apply. The legal arguments are too complicated to go into here but this can mean that Live auction cars can be ‘sold as seen’. The auction issue in this case may be a red herring anyway. They drove it 2 months without issues. They also continued to drive it despite the ‘awful noise’ and so could have caused the subsequent damage themselves in which case, if you have any liability at all, and this is arguable, then you may only be liable for the initial problem and not the whole extent of the damage. In any case, it sounds like a repair will result in betterment for them and so they may well be required to make a contribution. As always, there are so many factors to consider meaning a definitive answer is not possible without further discussion
powercar (19/05/2016)
Hello could you explain to me what the difference is between staright selling (in person) and selling on ebay as in live auction and buy it now. As I know there is a huge difference between 'but it now' and live online auction. I'm on about the legal aspect. I sold the car two moths ago with a new timing chain. The car was sold on the live auction on ebay with no returns terms on condition. After selling the car the client collected the car, drove safetly to home and after three weeks they gave me a positive feedback. After two months they called me saying that they were going on a holiday to Conrwall, and in my opinion it is a quite long distance. The next day after they got there, they went to local town. Apparently the car started to make awful noises and once they found out they said they safely drove back to the hotel even though they said the car was making noises.Once they got to the hotel, they called AA. IN In my opinion they shouldn't have drove back to the hotel in the first place. Anyway, after that their mechanic made investigations, and claimed that the gearing teeth on the balancing unit have shared of because the timing chain that my mechanic was fitted not fitted properly, which is an absurd. As how can you drive more than a month with a not properly fitted timing chain.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (19/05/2016)
Hi Andy, like all such cases, it depends. As more than 30 days have passed, he has lost his short term right to reject. That means he could be entitled to a repair. However, if the original cause was an oil leak, this could suggest he ignored warning lights and so caused the engine failure by his own negligence - who knows how he had treated the car over those 2300 miles. If it was MOT’d at the point of sale then this is evidence it is roadworthy, if there was no warranty then it’s unlikely given the price and age of the car that you have liability but it would need to be argued out. You do need to be careful going forward about the sold as seen bit as that could look like you are trying to deny your customer their statutory rights. Better to just give an honest description, MOT it to demonstrate roadworthiness and get customer to sign to say they understand it is sold without a warranty and is of satisfactory quality taking into account its description, age, mileage and price.
Andy (19/05/2016)
Hi, I am a new car dealer and deal in the bottom end of the market, most our our cars are under £1000 and more than 14 years old. We recently sold a car and just after 30 days the buyer has come back as the engine seems to have gone. He took it to another garage, didn't contact us in the first place and they have taken it apart and said the engine has gone. He then made contact with us and we told him he should have come to us in the first place. Our garage has now looked at it and said an oil leak which got to the cam belt has caused two chambers to go in the engine. When we sold the car the buyer signed a declaration confirming that the car was sold as seen and confirmed that any problems would be their financial responsibility to fix it. Over the 30 days he has done 2300 miles. The mot showed no oil leak. We offered him £200 contribution to another car, or another car free (our choice) he agreed but is now saying we have to give him more or get him back on the road, we feel we are being fairer than we need to be but where do we actually stand?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (19/05/2016)
Hi Jon, as long as the cars you sell are safe and roadworthy (best evidenced by a new MOT) then if you are honest about the faults then there really should not be a problem. The argument against that position is that the customer knew the fault but didn’t not realise the true extent of the consequences or cost. In my view, that’s allowing customers to have their cake and eat it i.e. accept a discount because of the fault but then complain when they have to pay out to have it fixed later down the line. Really it is like a seconds rail in a retail shop – clothes are discounted for a mark or hole in the material and if the customer accepts the lower price because of that fault, they cannot return the item. Your man there is probably referring to the Consumer Protection Regulations which essentially require you to be honest and not mislead. If you are being honest and not misleading then you shouldn’t have any problems re known faults. You could have liability for any other faults which arise but only if they meet the usual criteria set out in the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
Jon (19/05/2016)
Hi, For a good while now we have offered on or two cars for sale to the public with known faults and informed them of them on the advert and in writing at point of order (eg, electric window not working, power steering pump noisy and will need replacing etc.). I am not talking many but a few and we have a few regulars who like to buy them, we now however have 1 guy who has decided to take exception to the offer and wants to report us to pretty much anyone he can think of as what we are doing is in breach of the current selling legislation. Can you confirm for me if this is the case? We stand on any other issues that come up with the car but not the pre-existing faults we have told the customer about. The guy hasn't bought anything off us and I can assure you never will (no matter how hard he may try!) but it has got me thinking if the new rules do now cause me a problem.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (17/05/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
surfernig 17/05/2016 (17/05/2016)
Hi, I have purchased a car on 15/5/16, test drove ok and then purchased it, after 7 miles the car cutout and wouldn't restart, I was in the middle of a dual carraiageway and very dangerous, another driver helped me push it off the road, I called the AA who got it started but couldn't find a cause, we took the car back to the garage just before they closed, They are diagnosing the problem at the moment, After sleeping on it I no longer have confidence in the car and is very dangerous to just cut out with no steering or brakes, I would like a full refund, what are my rights, the car came with an RAC warranty and 82 point check but still broke down after 7 miles
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (17/05/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
George (17/05/2016)
Hello.I bought a car a week ago and I found lots of problems and the engine lost about 600 ml oil in only a week .The trader gave me 3 mouths warranty ,but when I call him he doesn't answer me after first call when I've explained to him all problems.What can I do to have repaired my car?Thank you
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (16/05/2016)
Hi Tom, there are many factors which need to be considered before an answer can be given. It is perfectly fine to say no warranty – just as a reminder dealers do not have to put a warranty, for three months or otherwise, on a car – that is a myth. However, a consumer in an ebay auction may have rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA) or it could be argued that the CRA does not apply as an ebay auction is akin to a standard live auction to which different rules apply. If the CRA does apply, then you need to consider the usual arguments re satisfactory quality and fitness for purpose for which we would need to know the vehicle’s age, mileage price paid etc and then we would need to know more about the alleged fault.
Tom (16/05/2016)
I sold a mini over a month the ago via a "no reserve" auction on eBay. My advert also stated no warranty would be given in any way shape or form. The person who I have sold it to has been informed there is an issue with compression and wants to return the car for a full refund. Where do I stand?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (16/05/2016)
Hi Rex, this issue is complicated by the fact the cambelt was due a change at the point of sale. This may leave it open to them to argue the vehicle was faulty at the point of sale. However, they have driven 4k miles in 7 months so it was obviously fine in that time. It’s a bit 50/50 but for future reference I’d recommend changing the belt as part of the pre delivery checks if a change is due as that will prevent this issue coming up again. This is one of those that will depend on what side of the bed the judge gets out on the day.
Rex99 (16/05/2016)
I should add that when the car was sold the cambelt had not been changed and it had gone past the manufacturers recomendation point where it needed changing. The car was serviced and our stamp is in the service book.
Rex99 (16/05/2016)
I sold a car some seven months ago. The buyer has covered 4k miles in those seven months and now the cambelt has gone and they are expecting me to pay the repairs or refund the purchase price. Their argument being that if the cambelt has gone after 4000 miles then it must have already needed replacing. Where do I stand?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (16/05/2016)
Hi John, from what you have said, I would be very surprised if she was entitled to reject. It was an 11 year old car with 94k miles and so will not be problem free. It sounds like she may have covered a good few miles since purchase which would indicate it was fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality. As ever, nothing is black and white but on those facts (and you picked up on all the right kind of things) it sounds like you have a strong case to simply reject her rejection.
Johngibbs (16/05/2016)
Hello I just wondered if you could offer me some advice? I am a dealer and sold a car back in November. We include a 3 month warranty with all our vehicles and around a week later she reported an issue with it smoking. We took the car back, rectified the issue and she was on her way. Around a week before her warranty expiry she emailed and said an engine light had been on since rectifying and reported some other flashing light with her 4 wheel drive. Due to workload, we advised her to take it to another garage for diagnosis. Initially they plug it in and found sporadic codes, so reset it and the vehicle was then returned to them a week later. She then left it with them for 8 days and the faults did not occur once nor any fault codes. Around a month later we got an email saying she had further issues and we said unfortunately your warranty has now lapsed etc and ultimately the car was in with a local garage who couldn't find anything wrong with it. We did invite her back however for free diagnostics. She then took the car to Porsche who have indicated some issues (though no report yet received and many appear to be wear and tear) and she now wants to reject the car. The fault in question is not related to the first fault. The vehicle is 11 years old with 94k miles on it. If you can advise as to what I can do that would be very helpful. Based on this experience and having found your website, I will most probably look at taking on your services. Many thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (16/05/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Looking for help (16/05/2016)
Needing a bit of advice if anyone can help me please. I recently got finance on a car from a second hand car sales. When I got the car it was making a noise to which I had no idea what was wrong (female that really doesn't know what to look for) I was only given a months warranty with the car, I contacted the dealer ship to make them aware of this and they eventually sorted out a car for me to use while mine was taken in to get fixed (which I appreciate) but my car has now been away for 8 weeks. I am just wondering where I stand with this can I should I ask for longer warranty when I actually get my car back!? What rights do I have what should I do?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (09/05/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Ricardo (09/05/2016)
Hello I was wondering if you could help me out, I bought a new car around a month ago, a Vw golf 2004 with 97k miles, for £1995. I was told by the dealer that the car comes with a 3 month warranty, about 3 weeks after I bought it the check engine light came on, I took the car to my mechanic to see what the problem was and he said it was the NOX sensor that needs replacing, I called the dealer up and he arranged a time for me to take the car there, he then cleared the faults because he said they were most likely made by a bump or a puddle I drove over as the sensor is getting old, a week later my engine light has come back on, I have called him again and explained that there is something wrong with the car but he Claims that there is nothing he can do because the car still physically drives fine. I was told the part alone I need to replace is £350, I was wondering if there anything I can do?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (03/05/2016)
Hi, without discussing this in more detail, we can’t give a definitive answer but there is no reason that a second hand item cannot be used in a repair on a second hand car. A new item could be considered betterment in which case, we would normally expect the customer to pay a contribution.
john (03/05/2016)
Hi Thank You for respond. I offered them repair the air bag but only with second hand air bag from e bay due to the cost of new one. They decided take car to main dealer and repair. They also check estimate cost from another garage in their town and cost is higher then in main dealer. Shall I pay for this repair or let them go to the court coz this is what they want to do now. Can they ask me for repair but only with new air bag?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (28/04/2016)
Hi Maverick, I am afraid we are only able to answer queries related to the articles on these pages. If you are a member though, do give us a call.
Maverick (28/04/2016)
Hi there. I am a trader and I was involved in a car accident where I was hit from behind. My progress of the claim has continually been delayed as the third party insurers continue to ask for different forms and documentation. I feel this has been an attempt by then for hold things up. It has been nearly 6 months since the accident and an inspection of the vehicle was only carried out a few days ago now. They have now got back to me and said they require proof of ownership and purchase could you please tell me if they are entitled to this by law.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (25/04/2016)
We would have to consider if the air bag issue made a £7k car not of satisfactory quality, not fit for purpose or not as described. If the answer to any of those is yes, then a refund/rejection is an option. It’s not clear cut and we would need more information. However, if the customer wants a main dealer priced repair, that is their choice but in law everyone has a duty to mitigate (minimise) their losses and so by choosing a main dealer they are by default paying a higher than necessary cost. Therefore you would be within your rights to only pay them what it would have cost you thus leaving the customer to pay the excess themselves.
john (25/04/2016)
I sold the car for 7000 and after 5 days customers want to reject the car due to air bag fault. They did diagnostic check even when I did not agree on. It has to be replaced The air bag it self for 547 but they do not agree for repair by me (they say we dont trust you after I sugessted maybe this can be caused by their intentions) Do i have to pay for repair in the main dealer or reject the car?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (25/04/2016)
A sale 11 months ago would fall under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and not the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as the latter did not come in until October last year. However, similar principles apply and so if the customer is complaining 11 months and 13k miles later, then the onus is on the customer to prove the issues were either apparent or developing at the point of sale. I don’t fancy his chances much.
DB (25/04/2016)
We sold a used car 11 months ago and was prepared to a high standard. The car was 3 years old and covered 36k miles with full franchised history. We purchased the car from a leasing company and it was a grade 2 car, meaning it had minor imperfections IE scuffed alloys a scratch on the front bumper. The car went through a Manufacturers approved used car programme and had advisories only on standard servicing requirements. The alloys and scratch were also rectified before being put up for sale. A used car warranty was applied to the upon sale. The customer took delivery and was fully inspected by him and he was happy and signed the handover sheet. The customer has contacted us to inform that some panels are out of alignment, the rear bumper has lacquer peeling and the rear light cluster has water Ingres. None of these were evident when the car was inspected by either the leasing company nor our own workshop which incedently also covers bodywork. The car has now covered 49k. Where do we stand? Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (25/04/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
bullysgirl (25/04/2016)
Have a problem with a used caravan dealer.Paid deposit on a van 13th Feb. Paid balance in full for van on 1st March (needed to be left longer for new windows to arrive, were told there was on problem with the front windows but they would be changed prior to collection. We viewed the van again on the 2nd March and the windows had NOT been done, told they were not in yet on order (then they measured the windows when we were in side viewing the van) ?not very truthful. We had the van collected on 4th March and delivered to permanent site. The van was collected by the dealer (as it was there fault the windows were not done prior to collection) 0n the 12th April !! waited over a month. Was not asked or advised that they were to put in windows from another used van ! and that the windows were a different colour!! Being ill I was unable to visit to view until this week 18th April and was so upset , asked them to take it back and give me my money back , I had not purchased a van with odd windows . The sales boss said he would give us £2,300 less than we paid and at that point we had not even slept a night in the van. soory long winded. I am able to get full refund / small loss refund ie £250 to many tears and pain , was suposed to be for relaxation .....id rather stay at home then all this hasssle
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (20/04/2016)
Dear Worried Trader, The EU law in question was actually introduced in 1999. The relationship between EU law and UK law is far too complicated to try and explain here but in this particular case, as we already had the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (and now the Consumer Rights Act 2015), we (the UK) were already giving consumers more rights than those set out in that 1999 piece of legislation. Other EU countries were not and so they had to bring in new laws to comply but for us in the UK, the consumer was, and is, entitled to a raft of consumer rights – as now set out in the Consumer Rights Act 2015. This, as we know, sets out that goods have to be of satisfactory quality etc etc and technically this gives the consumer up to 6 years to complain about a purchase, so more than the 2 years set out in the EU law. In short, there is no mandatory 2 year warranty.
Worried Trader (20/04/2016)
Hi, i sell a high number of used cars and lately have been confronted with the new EU Law where I am told the consumer has 2 years warranty on the purchase of virtually everything including secondhand cars. I have refunded two customers just for peace of mind as they bought cars that developed faults within a year of purchase. They were both around £12000 and I try to keep customers happy , but this new law really has me worried if it can come back and bite you within 2 years!!
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (20/04/2016)
Good try KC but I am afraid it is your info which is incorrect. Specifically if the customer wants to reject the goods in the first 30 days under the Short Term Right to Reject, they have to prove the fault. This is in the legislation and also in the BIS guidance which accompanied the new law back in October. This explicitly states “The assumption in the first 6 months does not apply where the consumer is seeking to use the short term right to reject”. So, from day 31 to the 6 month point you would be right but not for the first 30 days. I trust that clarifies matters for you
KC (20/04/2016)
The onus is NOT on the customer to prove the fault was there at point of sale until 6 months after the purchase. Some of the info here is incorrect.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (18/04/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Max (18/04/2016)
Hi, I bought a second hand car recently in March which came with a 30 day engine warranty. After a week the engine had a problem and the dealer said I couldnt use my local garage to fix it but had to use his approved garage which was 150+ miles away from me. Though this limitation is not in writing on the warranty he did mention this verbally prior to sale, so I agreed and took the car to his garage. However 24 hrs after the work was done the problem has reocurred. Am I within my rights to now ask for further work to be carried out at my local dealer and expect my costs to be covered - or are dealers legally able to insist on warranty work being done at a particular garage of their choosing? Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (13/04/2016)
Potentially but again without more facts, we can’t give a fuller answer. If the initial money they paid was only a reservation fee and not a deposit then arguably the contract was only made when they saw the vehicle and so the colour of the vehicle is the colour they accepted at the time of the contract. Also it may well depend on how long they had it before rejection. If they had it for 2 weeks and drove 1000 miles then rejecting for colour would probably be a no go. As with most cases, there are so many factors to consider. There is no ‘one size fits all’ answer in any consumer rejection matter despite how some consumer organisations may present the law in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which is 6 chapters, 101 sections and 10 schedules long.
Phill (13/04/2016)
Hi - we advertised a car for sale online with an incorrect colour shade. The customer reserved it online, collected it, but wants to return it within the 30 days for a full refund as they dont like the colour, and wanted the one advertised. The colour differences between what was advertised and what they had was subtle, but enough to make a big difference. They assumed on collection that they had ordered the wrong shade, but after looking into it found out that actually we advertised it wrong. Are they entitled to a refund based on "not as described"? Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (12/04/2016)
We can’t give detailed advice here as we would need to ask many more questions but a consumer can reject in the first 30 days if they can prove the car was not of satisfactory quality at the point of sale. They do not have to accept a repair. However, none of those items sound like they would make a used car not of satisfactory quality and so an entitlement to a refund on those limited facts, sounds unlikely but if you are a member, do call us to discuss in more detail.
Dave (12/04/2016)
Hi, I am a part time trader, I bought a car needing a new clutch and gearbox, which I paid to have fixed. I then put a new MOT on the vehicle and sold it. The customer rang me up and says he's been to halfords to get some new tyres and has been advised that the lower arms are shit to pieces and would never have passed an MOT. I then told him that there wasn't anything wrong with them and was confident that it would pass another MOT. The customer then put it through an MOT and it failed, but not on the lower arms. It failed on a brake pedal rubber and the headlight aim was out. However both were present and correct at the point of our MOT. Taken into consideration that he had done over 700 miles in 20 days in the vehicle and the lower arms were just an advisory, he now wants a full refund because he has lost trust in us. Surely he can't do this and especially as we have offered to replace the pedal rubber, sort out the headlight aim for him and even chane his lower arms. Where do we stand? Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (11/04/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your queries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
J young (11/04/2016)
I bought a van 2weeks ago the flywheel has gone it come with 3 months warranty am I entitled to free repair?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (07/04/2016)
Hi Matt, without all the facts it is difficult to give a definitive answer. You need to establish why the engine and the turbo injector failed. Could the customer have abused the car in some way or been negligent i.e. ignored warning lights etc. ? Did they take out a warranty? If you do have to refund, you are entitled to make a deduction for usage. However, there is no guidance on how an amount for usage is to be determined.
Matt (07/04/2016)
Hey Not sure if you can help, but i sold a ford S Max, 78000 miles on the clock for £5000, it seems the car broke down 42 days later, with 400 miles more on the clock, I told them to take it to my mechanic to make sure the work was done properly. It turned out the engine and turbo injector need to be replaced for a price of £3000, they have said that by law I have to pay to have the work done or give them a full refund, is this true?. Thanks
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (05/04/2016)
Hi Liam, as you have picked up, the threshold for satisfactory quality and fitness for purpose is higher for a newer more expensive car than a older, cheaper car. At £500, a buyer shouldn’t really expect too much from a car. It has to be safe and so if it is sold with a new MOT, then it’s safe and roadworthy at the point of sale. Should a mechanical fault then occur 2 weeks later, it could potentially be argued that the fault was just unfortunate timing and the dealer has no liability. As always, mush depends on the exact facts of each case and so a blanket answer is not possible.
Liam Spencer (05/04/2016)
Very useful information here. In reference to one of the earlier comments; if the trader mainly sells lower value cars (sub £1000) which at the time of sale display no faults other than those advertised, then the vehicle suffers a fairly major mechanical fault such as a clutch failure or turbo failure within a couple of hundred miles/couple of weeks after purchase, who is liable? The consumer in this instance may not be able to prove the fault was there at the time of sale so wouldn't be able to reject within 30 days I'm assuming? I know the 6 months right to repair etc. still apply Ultimately, what satisfactory quality or fitness for purpose should a consumer be reasonably able to expect for a car they paid £500-1000 for? Thanks Liam
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (04/04/2016)
The main question you need to consider is does that mark make the vehicle not of satisfactory quality? It’s very unlikely to make a used vehicle not of satisfactory quality but the threshold can obviously be higher on brand new vehicle. Other questions for consideration are: was it there at the point of sale, if not, how has it been caused and how bad is the mark? Any potential rejection case will be dependent on the specific facts so whilst it appears on these facts that the issue does not warrant a rejection, we couldn’t give a definitive answer without further fact finding discussion.
Eric (04/04/2016)
We recently sold a new vehicle that has a mark in the headlining. The customer wants to reject within the 30 day period. If this is something that can be cleaned and no other fault or cause for the mark found then do they still have the right to reject?
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (30/03/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your enquiries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (29/03/2016)
Thanks for coming to the site but we only advise motor traders and not consumers and so cannot answer your enquiries. You are best advised to contact a consumer organisation such as the Citizens Advice Bureau or talk to a solicitor
chris (29/03/2016)
hi all iv bought a van on a lease to buy you pay for the van but they continue to own it, when your final payment is made they sigh the van over to us. we bought it in September last year but have developed loads of problems and they wont do anything, clutch has gone starter motor has gone battery has done all the door locks need changing because they were extra locks on there from the previous owner and they had no keys from them, and just to top it off today the back door has come off, I'm paying £12000 pounds for this van in the end and its falling to bits after less than 6 months, were do I stand legally they say its 30 day warranty they wont do anything ???
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (15/03/2016)
If the vehicle is genuinely sold for spares and repairs and is not simply labelled as such as a ploy to sell a cheap car to a consumer without any of the usual consumer rights, then that should be fine as long as it is made wholly clear prior to the sale i.e. in the advert and on the order form. Trading Standards may well take a different view, though, if you operate from a high street showroom and all your vehicles are sold as spares and repairs. If you operate from a breakers yard, then fine, but looking like a ‘normal’ car dealer while selling all stock as spares and repairs is likely to attract the attention of Trading Standards who may well draw the conclusion that you are simply trying to avoid giving the consumer their rights.
henry (15/03/2016)
lets say I/you sell a vehicle as a dealer and the car is priced at less than £1000.00 and sold for spares or repairs due to price , age and high mileage and the customer is told this and it is noted on invoice how would I/you stand legally
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (29/02/2016)
Dear Russell, I am afraid the flaw is yours... 19(14) only makes reference to (3)(b) and (c) and 4 as you have pointed out. The Short Term Right to Reject is covered by (3)(a) for which the onus is on the customer to prove the fault. This is confirmed in the BIS guidance which accompanied the new law back in October. This explicitly states “The assumption in the first 6 months does not apply where the consumer is seeking to use the short term right to reject”.
Russell (29/02/2016)
There is a major flaw in your advice. It's not for the customer to prove the fault was present at the point of sale. This new legislation assumes the fault was there unless the TRADER can prove otherwise. 19 (14)For the purposes of subsections (3)(b) and (c) and (4), goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day. (15)Subsection (14) does not apply if— (a)it is established that the goods did conform to the contract on that day, or (b)its application is incompatible with the nature of the goods or with how they fail to conform to the contract.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (29/02/2016)
Hi Rss.....Each case is different. For example, a brand new premium vehicle with a substantial fault after 12 months could possibly leave the retailer liable (although the retailer could approach the manufacturer to pay for the repair) but, in most other cases after a period of 12 months, we would be likely to say no repair obligation, especially if it’s an item of wear and tear.
RSS (29/02/2016)
I understand the part that says about after the 30 day period that the consumer must give the trader an opportunity to repair or replace the vehicle but how long does this last for? Say a trader sells a vehicle and it was fine for 12 months but then the vehicle developed a fault would the trader still have to repair or replace the vehicle? Thanks RSS
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (29/02/2016)
Sorry Del we do not advise consumers. We suggest contacting your local Citizens Advice.
Del (29/02/2016)
Hello, Could someone answer me a question, I have purchased a car from a car dealer the finance has paid the car dealership however on the day after cleared funds the car was put through for a MOT and has failed on a few things one which states a "warning light indicates a fault" as part of the failure. On speaking to car dealer twice no mention of the other issues or the fault only mentioned one thing to me. Am i in my right to cancel the purchase? I do not have possession of the car it is still with the dealer getting "tyres" replaced but again no mention of the other failures or fault. Obviously the MOT failure info states a Fault what does that mean for me if I wish to reject?as advised I have not driven the car of the forcourt it still remains on the car dealer premises. If someone with the right knowledge could let me know or have any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (29/02/2016)
Hi Universals.....If you make it clear that the vehicle should be serviced and the cambelt changed and the customer understands what this may mean i.e. hidden problems and they accept a discount on that understanding AND it is clearly written on the invoice with the customer signature then the customer should be responsible. However, on a very bad day in court, a judge may feel sorry for a customer who later claims they didn’t know that their engine could blow if the cambelt wasn’t changed and so award them some cash. To be sure of avoiding such a soft decision by a court, its best to do the service, change the cambelt and up the price accordingly.
Universals (29/02/2016)
under the newrules if a dealer advises the customer that a vehicle should be serviced and cambelt replaced and a customer chooses not to do so. who is then responsible should something go wrong? Your comments/advicewill be greatly appreciatted
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (09/12/2015)
As an amendment to my response, a Trading Standards Officer has pointed out to us that the business guidance booklets linked on the Trading Standards Business Companion website are not in fact written by the Chartered Institute of Trading Standards (CITS). CITS apparently only write the business guidance on the website itself but not the business guidance in the business guidance booklets on their site. I hope that clarifies matters.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (01/12/2015)
We agree that it is, at best, very unhelpful that some Trading Standards (TS) offices are giving incomplete guidance to consumers, particularly when the salient points about the 30 day Right to Reject are made clear in the BIS guidance which is put together by..... the Chartered Trading Standards Institute. As we have already said elsewhere, we are continuing to have this argument with TS and will continue to do so on behalf of our clients. However, on the issue of lobbying, this really falls outside of what we do here at Lawgistics but the NFDA did make an attempt to lobby the Government while the Bill was going through Parliament. Their efforts can be read here: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmpublic/consumer/memo/cr16.htm Re the Hull case, we agree with the judge and are winning a lot of cases based on those type of arguments. We even won a case for our client recently when the engine seized only 60 miles after the customer took delivery. In that matter, the judge agreed with us that the dealer had done all he could re pre-delivery checks etc, just as you describe, and so could not be responsible for the customer ignoring warning lights and taking, what turned out to be, bad advice from his local Halfords.
james (01/12/2015)
We are surprised that the Motor Trade on block have not taken this consumer rights changes to task as not fit for purpose. Hull Trading Standards are informing every customer they have an automatic right to reject within 30 days without informing the customer he or she has to prove a fault was present at the point of sale. This miss information by a Consumer rights organisation should be challenged in a court of law as this action is causing adversarial confrontations due to their incorrect interpretation of the act.. Also in a recent Hull County court hearing with a customer trying to reject a vehicle the judge ruled no case to answer as it was argued that even new cars are given 3, 4, or 5 years warranties by the manufacturers as they will break down. Therefore if you give a 12 month contractual warranty, a new MOT ( no advisories), have it serviced, PDi checked all by independent garages, then you have mitigated all your liabilities and proved vehicles are of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. I am disappointed the legal profession has not challenged the act and had a a review. In the case of different Trading standards offices not having the correct guidelines they should be challenged and forced to address this miss information or be culpable in any legal action. Perhaps it is time to stand up and be counted or just sit on the fence and wait for the new no win no fee debacle to takeover from PPI
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (13/11/2015)
Hi and yes, if the deal is done in the UK, its covered by the CRA.
Johan (13/11/2015)
Does this new act apply to vehicles purchased in the UK and then registered in the Republic of Ireland (southern Ireland?) Also ??
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (05/11/2015)
We don’t provide advice to consumers but would point out that you would only be covered under the new Consumer Rights Act 2015 if you bought your vehicle on or after 1 October 2015
Mrs M (05/11/2015)
My car - bought 3 months ago from a dealer - just blew an 80 amp fuse while parked and a mechanic friend advised that the fuse box may need to be replaced, but also that it may be the whole electrical system is damaged. Something caused a big surge to melt an 80 amp fuse and it could be too expensive to repair. He said he can tell there has been previous electrical work done on the car, but nothing was mentioned at point of sale. RAC is towing it on Monday. Hope the dealer plays fair and that these new rights protect me. I am still paying the loan on the car!
Steve Coulter (01/10/2015)
It's a tough regime given we are supplying used goods and IMHO used cars should be exempted, but it's here and we have to work with it. As a defence against STR to R I've seen commentators mentioning a comprehensive mechanical pre-sale checklist (and maybe new MOT with no advisories) that could be signed by the buyer on handover and copied for file, as well as a short video of the car kept on HDD showing all intact and preferably running with no EML or adverse noises. Both seem like good ideas to me and could make up a defined process applied to every car that would surely go down well if any claim went to arbitration. In the light of CRA2015 it would be madness for any dealer/group not to have a defined process from Oct 1st.
Nona Bowkis - Lawgistics Ltd (29/09/2015)
From the Act and the accompanying guidance, it would appear that yes, a consumer cannot exercise their Short Term Right to Reject if they cannot prove the fault was there at the point of sale. You could agree other remedies with the consumer but this particular statutory 30 day right to rejection should not be available to them.
David @AZ_Autos (29/09/2015)
In respects to point 2 on Short Term Right to Reject (Prove that the fault was present at the point of sale). If the fault is not present at time of sale, does that mean that the consumer cannot return the car?



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